I’m unsure about the asshole part, but the biggest issue with me and friends is I’m not good at interacting. My mind draws an indecisive blank at open questions, even ones as simple as “how are you”. People don’t like feeling like they’re talking to a wall, so no friendships form. I am not neurotypical, this is hardwired into me and cannot be trained (unless you don’t mind me blurting out completely irrelevant topic matter as a form of conversation, which makes a conversation like a bundle of bricks without an adhesive makes a fort). The only reason I fare good when communicating long distance is because it’s not a live conversation and you can meditate on how you want to respond as you do. What I need is someone I can be silent with, and that’s just not something that exists, or so people would make me think.
The problem arises when people say “[random thing] will help you make friends” as if it’s about finding people. I’m surrounded by people everyday, and I’m not an introvert. That was never an issue. But it almost comes off as they’re using it as a gimmick, as it’s something people say of everything, whether college, jobs, the military, volunteer work, literally anything that one could argue they want to lure people into doing.
I feel you there bud, I’m lucky I enjoy animal fact videos as a side screen thing so I can usually use that as a conversation piece if needed. Customer service jobs really helped me be able to put on a face.
I might understand developing this when it comes to a stressful job, but how could that be applied to general conversation, which has a broader track range?
i met a bunch of folks going to school that I’d never have met if I didnt go (different social circles). still chat with a lot of them 25+ years later.
It’s not that there aren’t unique people to meet there, I know there are, but if the problem is not introversion but rather interactive mental skill, throwing new people at the problem won’t fix it. Every time someone says they haven’t been able to make friends, people of the previous generation almost seem fixated on suggesting it’s all that person’s fault.
As someone that had the same problem (not properly socialized when young), the only way you learn is by lots of trying, failure, and trying some more.
Thankfully my parents gave me an ultimatum in my early 20s that I either get a job or find a friend to live with. They also stopped giving me any money, unless it was gas money to go to an interview. There were a lot of failings on their part but ultimately they learned and I’m glad they did because I’m living a life now that I never thought I would have.
Falling down and standing up again, that’s life. You have relationships with family friends, partners, and sometimes you fuck up, or get fucked up on, but you stand up again and learn
No, in other words, the only way you stand a chance of winning (in this case, leading a satisfying life) is to try. If you don’t try, and you waste away in someone’s house forever, then you are assured an unhappy, unsatisfied life.
Edit: This turned out much longer than I intended. Written on mobile and not proof-read. I wrote it because I was once in your shoes and feel like I have some wisdom that may be helpful if you’re willing to try a growth mindset for a while.
Keep trying. Watch videos of famous speakers. Watch videos on microexpressions and learn to recognize them. If you’re high-energy, lower your energy. People are intrigued by the silent types that say little aside from when important things need to be said. Learn to deepen your voice (it’s a learned physical stretching of the diaphram or esophagus that will go away if you stop doing it, and you’ll sound weird for the first few months, but whatever, practice online.) Speak with confidence (faked is fine), and monotone is better than sing-song. Use the neurotypical’s boredom and need to socialize to your advantage. You can be vague about your past, your job, etc. If you’re a boring person, a little mystery goes a long way. No one should ever know your innermost thought processes and intimate details, so you can use it as a way to intrigue and make them want to learn more. Learn how to small talk, which as absolutely boring and de-stimulating as it is for us, is an absolute necessity. Do not talk about things if you can’t relate it to the term ‘normie’, unless they bring it up first. This still includes anime and gaming, and especially politics and religion. Don’t be gross or take jokes too far. It will take a lot of trial and error to develop a filter of what’s acceptable to most. Once you’ve developed an acceptability filter (the first major step) you won’t be subconsciously considered creepy. Don’t play devils advocate, especially during an emotional time for the other party. Don’t ‘mansplain’. Find high-end spectrum buddies to befriend in real life. Hygiene and grooming yourself and wearing matched //and properly fitting!// clothes goes a very long way.
I saw in another comment you said you draw blanks on questions of small-talk like ‘what have you been up to’ - here is where most people would talk minimally about the ‘safe’ subjects - work or family. And it must be positive, regardless of the situation. After all, they’re not asking this question because they want to find out his you’ve been (unless it’s a good friend) they’re doing it out of social normalcy. So if you don’t have a job, and you’re not going to school, and you have a rocky relationship with your family, and the most you can say if being honest is ‘well I wrote a neat python script last week’ – just lie until you actually have a real answer to give. “Things are great, I heard back from [local company] about an IT Helpdesk position. Have an interview on Friday.” That will tell them multiple things. You have (some level) of ambition. You’re in IT. You’re in the market for a job (they may know someone in need). It’s a way to branch off into many different subjects. And, if you don’t have much to say, learn to ask good (but not creepy) questions - people love to talk about themselves.
Social interaction is the programming language of humanity, and if you refuse to learn the basics of the language, you’ll never code a meaningful friendship or life. It’s a language with many nuances and subtleties, but as long as you are willing to put yourself out there, you will be able to make a life that you’re satisfied with. It comes at the cost of emotional pain of rejection, and maybe even a regional move after you’ve learned the basics in your ‘testnet’ hometown. But you absolutely can do it.
You may think 24 years old is too old, but that’s around when I started getting it. There are two options. You can start now and live a mostly satisfying life until you’re 70-80 (hopefully). Or the alternative you currently see for yourself if you take an honest look at your situation, which I’m assuming is a grim one, with stagnation until your parents/caretakers pass away, and then a brief stint of homelessness before you pass away.
I know which one I hope you choose. It’s hard to get out there and do it, but you absolutely can. Repetition. Repetition. Repetition.
As for the place you start, mine was a small weirdo bar/coffee shop, which led to a good job, which led to girls/friends, which led to more confidence, which led to a better job in IT. There were many ups and downs, and there still are - but now I have more coping tools than just drugs, suicidal ideation, and learned helplessness. I have (2) really great friends I can talk to and depend on. I have a loving fiancée that means the world to me.
I took the time to write this because I saw myself in your comments. There are only so many things in this life that you have full control over, and discipline and mindset are two of them. Start building habits like the gym, whether running (great for mental health) or lifting (great for confidence) or both. Daily routines, including proper sleep hygiene and going to bed at a decent hour. You’ll be amazed how much easier it is to start doing and learning when you’re eating right, getting sunlight, moving your body, sleeping right (not too much, not too little, and consistently).
Also, learn to pay attention to your body. That was a big one for me. I was always so trapped in my head that I had no idea how much tension I had (tightness in chest/stomach, butterflies, etc). Physically unwinding does wonders for being mentally calm and focused. You can’t have one without the other.
I hope this gives you some level of hope or inspiration. If you ever have questions or just want to practice small talk, feel free to message me.
ETA: You’re 24 and on the spectrum. As neurodivergents, our brains develop slower in the areas related to impulse control and social functioning. You’re right around the age you can realistically start making sweeping developments in social ability and style. So while most people start learning the nuances a lot younger, you’re at the prime age to start. I had to spend a lot of time and effort and go through a lot of heartbreak and false-start friendships before I started getting it. I have AuADHD, lived in a rural area, and was just ‘too much’ for single (divorced) multiple-job parents to handle, so I didn’t get much socialization at all before grade school. I can’t blame them for it, they were ignorant and really did the best they could do, but what’s important is that I understand my strengths and weaknesses, and own and accept that my life is my responsibility now.
Life has a lot to offer. If you really need it while you’re getting the initial hang of it, there is medication for social anxiety, but use it as a temporary band-aid while you get over the worst of it, and start learning the basics - and if its an antidepressant they offer, check withdrawal effects of that specific drug. Some come with horrendous side effects and withdrawals that can last 6 months or longer. For people with autism, I am a huge advocate of cannabis - there’s some evidence, and overwhelming anecdotal evidence, that certain cannabinoids can improve social functioning in autistic people tremendously. Not concentrates. Flower, in small doses. Smoked once or twice per day, alone at first until you’re used to how it makes you feel, and then once you’re used to the perspective shift you can go out and socialize. It’ll make you feel like you can actually feel and process conversations in real-time as opposed to being stuck and emotionless and overwhelmed. For me, I am very sensitive to cannabis, and only some strains work well for this - so if you want to go this route, hopefully you live in a place with recreational or medical marijuana, or, are good with computers.
Speaking of college/jobs, they told me that going to them would help me make more friends.
They DO help a little, but you still have to do your part and not be an insufferable asshole.
May or may not be your situation. I don’t know.
But I do know plenty of people that need to learn that.
I’m unsure about the asshole part, but the biggest issue with me and friends is I’m not good at interacting. My mind draws an indecisive blank at open questions, even ones as simple as “how are you”. People don’t like feeling like they’re talking to a wall, so no friendships form. I am not neurotypical, this is hardwired into me and cannot be trained (unless you don’t mind me blurting out completely irrelevant topic matter as a form of conversation, which makes a conversation like a bundle of bricks without an adhesive makes a fort). The only reason I fare good when communicating long distance is because it’s not a live conversation and you can meditate on how you want to respond as you do. What I need is someone I can be silent with, and that’s just not something that exists, or so people would make me think.
The problem arises when people say “[random thing] will help you make friends” as if it’s about finding people. I’m surrounded by people everyday, and I’m not an introvert. That was never an issue. But it almost comes off as they’re using it as a gimmick, as it’s something people say of everything, whether college, jobs, the military, volunteer work, literally anything that one could argue they want to lure people into doing.
My response was mostly a joke, but now that you mention it, I relate with you more than you might expect.
Years in retail and sales helped me develop my “work face” which includes a list of go-to responses for the random bullshit people say every day.
I feel you there bud, I’m lucky I enjoy animal fact videos as a side screen thing so I can usually use that as a conversation piece if needed. Customer service jobs really helped me be able to put on a face.
I might understand developing this when it comes to a stressful job, but how could that be applied to general conversation, which has a broader track range?
i met a bunch of folks going to school that I’d never have met if I didnt go (different social circles). still chat with a lot of them 25+ years later.
It’s not that there aren’t unique people to meet there, I know there are, but if the problem is not introversion but rather interactive mental skill, throwing new people at the problem won’t fix it. Every time someone says they haven’t been able to make friends, people of the previous generation almost seem fixated on suggesting it’s all that person’s fault.
Well, going to a place with more people makes you meet more people, makes it easier to make friends…
It would if the problem was access to people rather than how to handle people.
As someone that had the same problem (not properly socialized when young), the only way you learn is by lots of trying, failure, and trying some more.
Thankfully my parents gave me an ultimatum in my early 20s that I either get a job or find a friend to live with. They also stopped giving me any money, unless it was gas money to go to an interview. There were a lot of failings on their part but ultimately they learned and I’m glad they did because I’m living a life now that I never thought I would have.
Falling down and standing up again, that’s life. You have relationships with family friends, partners, and sometimes you fuck up, or get fucked up on, but you stand up again and learn
Exactly. The only way to ensure you lose is to not play.
It’s a very hard mental barrier to overcome, but it can be done.
The only way not to lose in life is not to live? Did I misunderstand you?
No, in other words, the only way you stand a chance of winning (in this case, leading a satisfying life) is to try. If you don’t try, and you waste away in someone’s house forever, then you are assured an unhappy, unsatisfied life.
If trying, failing, and trying some more doesn’t work, even after 24 years, what then?
Edit: This turned out much longer than I intended. Written on mobile and not proof-read. I wrote it because I was once in your shoes and feel like I have some wisdom that may be helpful if you’re willing to try a growth mindset for a while.
Keep trying. Watch videos of famous speakers. Watch videos on microexpressions and learn to recognize them. If you’re high-energy, lower your energy. People are intrigued by the silent types that say little aside from when important things need to be said. Learn to deepen your voice (it’s a learned physical stretching of the diaphram or esophagus that will go away if you stop doing it, and you’ll sound weird for the first few months, but whatever, practice online.) Speak with confidence (faked is fine), and monotone is better than sing-song. Use the neurotypical’s boredom and need to socialize to your advantage. You can be vague about your past, your job, etc. If you’re a boring person, a little mystery goes a long way. No one should ever know your innermost thought processes and intimate details, so you can use it as a way to intrigue and make them want to learn more. Learn how to small talk, which as absolutely boring and de-stimulating as it is for us, is an absolute necessity. Do not talk about things if you can’t relate it to the term ‘normie’, unless they bring it up first. This still includes anime and gaming, and especially politics and religion. Don’t be gross or take jokes too far. It will take a lot of trial and error to develop a filter of what’s acceptable to most. Once you’ve developed an acceptability filter (the first major step) you won’t be subconsciously considered creepy. Don’t play devils advocate, especially during an emotional time for the other party. Don’t ‘mansplain’. Find high-end spectrum buddies to befriend in real life. Hygiene and grooming yourself and wearing matched //and properly fitting!// clothes goes a very long way.
I saw in another comment you said you draw blanks on questions of small-talk like ‘what have you been up to’ - here is where most people would talk minimally about the ‘safe’ subjects - work or family. And it must be positive, regardless of the situation. After all, they’re not asking this question because they want to find out his you’ve been (unless it’s a good friend) they’re doing it out of social normalcy. So if you don’t have a job, and you’re not going to school, and you have a rocky relationship with your family, and the most you can say if being honest is ‘well I wrote a neat python script last week’ – just lie until you actually have a real answer to give. “Things are great, I heard back from [local company] about an IT Helpdesk position. Have an interview on Friday.” That will tell them multiple things. You have (some level) of ambition. You’re in IT. You’re in the market for a job (they may know someone in need). It’s a way to branch off into many different subjects. And, if you don’t have much to say, learn to ask good (but not creepy) questions - people love to talk about themselves.
Social interaction is the programming language of humanity, and if you refuse to learn the basics of the language, you’ll never code a meaningful friendship or life. It’s a language with many nuances and subtleties, but as long as you are willing to put yourself out there, you will be able to make a life that you’re satisfied with. It comes at the cost of emotional pain of rejection, and maybe even a regional move after you’ve learned the basics in your ‘testnet’ hometown. But you absolutely can do it.
You may think 24 years old is too old, but that’s around when I started getting it. There are two options. You can start now and live a mostly satisfying life until you’re 70-80 (hopefully). Or the alternative you currently see for yourself if you take an honest look at your situation, which I’m assuming is a grim one, with stagnation until your parents/caretakers pass away, and then a brief stint of homelessness before you pass away.
I know which one I hope you choose. It’s hard to get out there and do it, but you absolutely can. Repetition. Repetition. Repetition.
As for the place you start, mine was a small weirdo bar/coffee shop, which led to a good job, which led to girls/friends, which led to more confidence, which led to a better job in IT. There were many ups and downs, and there still are - but now I have more coping tools than just drugs, suicidal ideation, and learned helplessness. I have (2) really great friends I can talk to and depend on. I have a loving fiancée that means the world to me.
I took the time to write this because I saw myself in your comments. There are only so many things in this life that you have full control over, and discipline and mindset are two of them. Start building habits like the gym, whether running (great for mental health) or lifting (great for confidence) or both. Daily routines, including proper sleep hygiene and going to bed at a decent hour. You’ll be amazed how much easier it is to start doing and learning when you’re eating right, getting sunlight, moving your body, sleeping right (not too much, not too little, and consistently).
Also, learn to pay attention to your body. That was a big one for me. I was always so trapped in my head that I had no idea how much tension I had (tightness in chest/stomach, butterflies, etc). Physically unwinding does wonders for being mentally calm and focused. You can’t have one without the other.
I hope this gives you some level of hope or inspiration. If you ever have questions or just want to practice small talk, feel free to message me.
ETA: You’re 24 and on the spectrum. As neurodivergents, our brains develop slower in the areas related to impulse control and social functioning. You’re right around the age you can realistically start making sweeping developments in social ability and style. So while most people start learning the nuances a lot younger, you’re at the prime age to start. I had to spend a lot of time and effort and go through a lot of heartbreak and false-start friendships before I started getting it. I have AuADHD, lived in a rural area, and was just ‘too much’ for single (divorced) multiple-job parents to handle, so I didn’t get much socialization at all before grade school. I can’t blame them for it, they were ignorant and really did the best they could do, but what’s important is that I understand my strengths and weaknesses, and own and accept that my life is my responsibility now.
Life has a lot to offer. If you really need it while you’re getting the initial hang of it, there is medication for social anxiety, but use it as a temporary band-aid while you get over the worst of it, and start learning the basics - and if its an antidepressant they offer, check withdrawal effects of that specific drug. Some come with horrendous side effects and withdrawals that can last 6 months or longer. For people with autism, I am a huge advocate of cannabis - there’s some evidence, and overwhelming anecdotal evidence, that certain cannabinoids can improve social functioning in autistic people tremendously. Not concentrates. Flower, in small doses. Smoked once or twice per day, alone at first until you’re used to how it makes you feel, and then once you’re used to the perspective shift you can go out and socialize. It’ll make you feel like you can actually feel and process conversations in real-time as opposed to being stuck and emotionless and overwhelmed. For me, I am very sensitive to cannabis, and only some strains work well for this - so if you want to go this route, hopefully you live in a place with recreational or medical marijuana, or, are good with computers.