I would like to add David Graeber to that, and Kropotkin even. I don’t mean to start a snowball effect that turns this into a huge list, but I feel like not enough people (especially the average person) know about them; especially Graeber who is a lot more modern.

They very clearly were wrong for painting technology as the problem. The problem is and was capitalism.

Yeah, the post is only true if we start implementing a bunch of copyright laws for the training and use of AI; ironically that is something most anti-AI people support.

I think it’s just part of how languages work and people communicate, at least for people learning a second language - but I even do it in my native tongue, so I think it’s general.

For example, if when you are learning English you hear a lot of people say “God dammit” when they are frustrated, then when you are frustrated you’ll probably also start saying the same without ever even thinking about God. It’s essentially just a series of sounds when you learned to make to express frustration.

I’ve only had this phrase explained to me recently, and since then I can’t help but think it would make more sense if it was told the other way around; such as “you can’t eat your cake and have it too”.

Ok 👍 😘

You managed to say a lot without really saying anything. And when did I argue semantics or put words in someone’s mouth?

I’m not gonna go through this entire conversation again, so I’ll just link you my last comment which should sum up my thoughts relatively well.

Okay, this comment was the best so far and actually seemed to care to make a point/converse, so I’ll make just one final reply.

Your first sentence might be true for older men, or men who are already “allies” to put it simply, but it’s simply not true for younger men, and again it’s also just unhelpful and pushes people away. Overall, it makes you sound like you care more about being angry and being right, than actually helping to make society better. Not that I don’t understand that feeling by the way, I’m just saying it’s unhelpful and not constructive.

And yeah, off course there will always be some men who will feel threatened anyway when people raise the issue, but the question is how many feel threatened and “othered” in one situation versus in the other situation. I mean, I’d hate to fall from a ladder, but I’d rather fall from a short ladder than a tall one; does that make sense? I’d rather you go with the option that will push less young men into the arms of people like Andrew Tate, rather than the one that will push the most just because you’re angry and want to make your point in the most brutish way possible.

And they will feel ‘othered’ because the patriarchy has raised them to believe they are the superior humans because of their gender and any suggestion that some men may do the wrong thing where women are concerned is an explicit threat to them personally.

They feel “othered” because the meme is inherently sexist, and if they complain they get called sexist. Again, imagine if instead of “men” this is talking about a marginalized group and the problem becomes explicit. Just because men are not a marginalized group in society, does not mean that the same feelings are not evoked in them when confronted with such rhetoric.

What are you talking about? When did I even say anything like that? Of course they will still get threats, the point is what is the best way to move forward, raise attention to these issues to bring about a better society, instead of making the situation worse, which is what I think your behavior does.

I’m really not sure if you’re even engaging in good faith and I’m not gonna spend all day on this, so this will be the final thing I’ll say:

I think that meme is unnecessarily divisive and will cause the average man (at least young man/teenager) who stumbles into it to feel attacked, and even more so when accused of either “not getting it” or “being a misogynist”; and in a time when they are just a couple clicks away of falling into and alt-right pipeline that will acknowledge their feelings and tell them the left/progressives have it out for them, it’s really unproductive to use rhetoric like that, which can make them feel “othered” and part of an out group.

By just highlighting the experiences of women in the society we live in, and all the sexual violence they fall victims to, and how much violence is specifically directed at women - without resorting to cheap inflammatory “memes” (*). And as another way to a solution, we can also just try to be and create good role models for young men.

(*)And saying that has actually reminded me, that’s usually exactly how the far right likes to act and spread their message too: inflammatory rhetoric that can make a catchy sound bite that will reach a lot of people, but which has no real depth to it. I’d rather not those tactics and actually try having real conversations.

Gr8 argument m8!

Should be pretty clear if you actually bothered to read it, but I’ll spell it out for you: P-R-O-G-R-E-S-S-I-V-E-S; and overall people who acknowledge the experiences of women that this is supposed to highlight. And I am also on that side, I just think you’re doing an absolute shit job of it, being needlessly discriminating, and creating division - as I already explained.

Yeah, god forbid people get angry when others make sexist remarks! They must be real misogynists for not liking sexism!

If you replaced the “man” with “black man” or “black person”, or if someone said this with immigrants, it wouldn’t need to be explained to you or anyone why this is a pretty fucked up thing to say, but for some reason when it’s just “man” it’s okay and anyone who disagrees is a misogynist, according to you. If I made a general frustrated remark about women, plenty of people would take issue with it, and I don’t think you’d would be saying “it wasn’t meant to be a debate, it was meant to illustrate a point”, would you?

How about just stop using sexist rhetoric? There are a lot of people on your side who would agree with you if you just dropped the needlessly sexist and divisive rhetoric.

And before you get there - and if not you then I’m sure someone will think of saying it - yes, it’s true that the world and system we live in isn’t as hostile to men as women, but progressive spaces definitely tend to be the opposite. And believe it or not, that actually has an effect with pushing younger men into the arms of the alt right; you can insult them and just call them fascists if you like, but that doesn’t change the reality that young hormonal men going into progressive spaces and seeing this kind of rhetoric will feel excluded, pushed out, and like the world is against them.