The state was run by the party, and the party was run and elected by the workers. The concept of a dominant political party is in line with Marxism, and is not indicative of Capitalism.
The workers elected the people making decisions. They did not vote on the decisions themselves, correct. The USSR was not a direct democracy. Direct Democracy is not a requiremeny for Socialism.
I think it would do you good to revisit Marxism and better understand what a Class actually is. Yes, the USSR was flawed, but it was also Socialism. The former Soviet States are now Capitalist at best, and fascist at worst, and function completely differently from when they were in the USSR.
Additionally, unless you’re extremely old, you experienced the period of liberalization before collapse, not the peak of Socialism.
I never said a direct democracy is needed but worker control of the means of production is, in the USSR workers did not have that. Pretty much all meaningful elections in the USSR were held within the party by the party, not by the workers. The party was a bourgeoisie ruling class with vastly different class interests which is why the USSR was not socialist.
The party was of the workers and had open elections among the workers. Opposition parties were banned, but that does not mean it wasn’t open.
The Party was absolutely not Bourgeoisie. The fact that workers owned the state and the party ran the state does not mean that the Party were bourgeois. This is a ridiculous notion, akin to saying middle-management in a Capitalist enterprise are bourgeoisie because they run much of Capitalist companies.
The party had the same class interests because there was no M-C-M’ circuit by which state planners pocketed all of the profits. Production was directed by the state and flowed back to the workers in the form of free education, health care, pensions, and other worker-directed benefits. It was not used among competing Capitalists to gain monopoly and increase exploitation.
You should reread Marx, your understanding of class dynamics is highly flawed.
If you read your own source you will find that soviet democracy pretty much fell in 1921 and with the death of Lenin it was gone. Which was my original statement that with Stalin any hope for socialism was gone. So my point of it being bourgeoisie rule stands.
If you read the source you will see it continued, lol. Read the section by Pat Sloan.
Still more important, you have yet to explain why you believe the USSR was run by privatized corporations and Capitalists that competed in an open market producing commodities as the standard.
I did but that section definitely does not reflect what life was for a worker in the USSR after Stalin so I’m curious when he participated in that election.
I did not say that capitalists were in power what I said was that the party was in power. There aren’t just 2 options, a monarchy for example is commonly neither capitalist nor socialist.
Hey, feel free to find scholarly sources, I’m down to read. Even you yourself said there were elections though.
You did say Capitalists were in power, you said the party was Bourgeoisie. That means they were Capitalists, which is obviously wrong and that’s why I think you should read Marx.
Again, not saying the USSR was perfect. It was indeed corrupt and had multiple failures under its belt, but it was history’s largest example of a Socialist society.
I already checked the book where the quote is from and it doesn’t say when he participated in the election. At least I didn’t find it but I can only assume it was before 1921.
I guess bourgeoisie does technically refer to a ruling class in a capitalist society but it’s so commonly used to refer to just a ruling class or just who owns the means of production in general conversation that my usage is more colloquial. Like I would also refer to a monarch and the royal family as the bourgeoisie while the society isn’t capitalist.
Read the Thurston quote, he directly states that while criticizing Stalin was a terrible idea, Workers had meaningful participation. Again, find sources, I am down to read, but right now it’s your word vs historical evidence.
Bourgeoisie only refers to Capitalists in Marxian terms. The aristocracy was not Bourgeoisie, nor were slave owners. Read Marx, it’s clear that you don’t understand Class. If you refer to Monarchs as bourgeoisie then you’ve demonstrated that you haven’t ever read Marx, because a huge amount of his writing is about how the Bourgeoisie differ from the aristocracy.
Even reading Principles of Communism by Engels could tell you that, and it’s a pamphlet.
The state was run by the party, and the party was run and elected by the workers. The concept of a dominant political party is in line with Marxism, and is not indicative of Capitalism.
The workers elected the people making decisions. They did not vote on the decisions themselves, correct. The USSR was not a direct democracy. Direct Democracy is not a requiremeny for Socialism.
I think it would do you good to revisit Marxism and better understand what a Class actually is. Yes, the USSR was flawed, but it was also Socialism. The former Soviet States are now Capitalist at best, and fascist at worst, and function completely differently from when they were in the USSR.
Additionally, unless you’re extremely old, you experienced the period of liberalization before collapse, not the peak of Socialism.
I never said a direct democracy is needed but worker control of the means of production is, in the USSR workers did not have that. Pretty much all meaningful elections in the USSR were held within the party by the party, not by the workers. The party was a bourgeoisie ruling class with vastly different class interests which is why the USSR was not socialist.
That goes directly against historical records.
The party was of the workers and had open elections among the workers. Opposition parties were banned, but that does not mean it wasn’t open.
The Party was absolutely not Bourgeoisie. The fact that workers owned the state and the party ran the state does not mean that the Party were bourgeois. This is a ridiculous notion, akin to saying middle-management in a Capitalist enterprise are bourgeoisie because they run much of Capitalist companies.
The party had the same class interests because there was no M-C-M’ circuit by which state planners pocketed all of the profits. Production was directed by the state and flowed back to the workers in the form of free education, health care, pensions, and other worker-directed benefits. It was not used among competing Capitalists to gain monopoly and increase exploitation.
You should reread Marx, your understanding of class dynamics is highly flawed.
If you read your own source you will find that soviet democracy pretty much fell in 1921 and with the death of Lenin it was gone. Which was my original statement that with Stalin any hope for socialism was gone. So my point of it being bourgeoisie rule stands.
If you read the source you will see it continued, lol. Read the section by Pat Sloan.
Still more important, you have yet to explain why you believe the USSR was run by privatized corporations and Capitalists that competed in an open market producing commodities as the standard.
I did but that section definitely does not reflect what life was for a worker in the USSR after Stalin so I’m curious when he participated in that election.
I did not say that capitalists were in power what I said was that the party was in power. There aren’t just 2 options, a monarchy for example is commonly neither capitalist nor socialist.
Hey, feel free to find scholarly sources, I’m down to read. Even you yourself said there were elections though.
You did say Capitalists were in power, you said the party was Bourgeoisie. That means they were Capitalists, which is obviously wrong and that’s why I think you should read Marx.
Again, not saying the USSR was perfect. It was indeed corrupt and had multiple failures under its belt, but it was history’s largest example of a Socialist society.
I already checked the book where the quote is from and it doesn’t say when he participated in the election. At least I didn’t find it but I can only assume it was before 1921.
I guess bourgeoisie does technically refer to a ruling class in a capitalist society but it’s so commonly used to refer to just a ruling class or just who owns the means of production in general conversation that my usage is more colloquial. Like I would also refer to a monarch and the royal family as the bourgeoisie while the society isn’t capitalist.
Read the Thurston quote, he directly states that while criticizing Stalin was a terrible idea, Workers had meaningful participation. Again, find sources, I am down to read, but right now it’s your word vs historical evidence.
Bourgeoisie only refers to Capitalists in Marxian terms. The aristocracy was not Bourgeoisie, nor were slave owners. Read Marx, it’s clear that you don’t understand Class. If you refer to Monarchs as bourgeoisie then you’ve demonstrated that you haven’t ever read Marx, because a huge amount of his writing is about how the Bourgeoisie differ from the aristocracy.
Even reading Principles of Communism by Engels could tell you that, and it’s a pamphlet.